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WASHINGTON — Former FBI General Counsel James Baker on Thursday testified that he briefed then-FBI Director James Comey and Deputy Director Andy McCabe on allegations brought to him by Clinton campaign lawyer Michael Sussmann in September 2016 claiming a covert communications channel between the Trump Organization and a Kremlin-linked bank, and confirmed that the FBI was "already conducting an investigation" into possible ties between Russia and then-candidate Donald Trump at the time of the Sussmann meeting.
During questioning by federal prosecutors Thursday morning, Baker repeatedly stressed that he believed Sussmann when he said he was acting as a concerned citizen in bringing the Trump-Russia allegations to the FBI, and "not on behalf of any client."
Baker testified that upon receiving the information from Sussmann during their meeting on Sept. 19, 2016, which alleged what Baker described as a "surreptitious" communications channel between the Trump Organization and Russian-based Alfa Bank.
"The FBI was already conducting an investigation into alleged connections between the Trump campaign and Russians at this point in time, so that was a matter of great concern to all of us," Baker said.
Baker later testified that after the FBI investigated the allegations of a connection between Trump Organization and Alfa Bank, they found that "there was nothing there."
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Following the Sept. 19, 2016 meeting with Sussmann, Baker said he immediately notified then-FBI Assistant Director fo Counterintelligence Bill Priestap, and later, briefed Comey and McCabe.
Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe and former FBI Director James Comey are among those whose conduct is being reviewed in Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz's report. (Reuters)
"Here was another type of information between Trump and Russia that had come to me," Baker said, describing it as "concerning" and "time sensitive."
"It seemed to me of great urgency and great seriousness that I would want to make my bosses aware of this information," Baker said. "I think they were quite concerned about it."
President Donald Trump speaks at a campaign rally at HoverTech International, Monday, Oct. 26, 2020, in Allentown, Pa. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
"Trump, at the time, was a candidate for office of the president of the United States, so, the FBI is investigating allegations related to his potential interactions, and those people on his campaign, with the government of the Russian Federation," Baker said.
He added: "And that was of high, high importance to the FBI at this point in time."
Sussmann has been charged with making a false statement to the FBI when he told Baker in September 2016, less than two months before the presidential election, that he was not doing work "for any client" when he requested and attended a meeting where he presented "purported data and ‘white papers’ that allegedly demonstrated a covert communicates channel" between the Trump Organization and Alfa Bank, which has ties to the Kremlin.
James Baker, who served as FBI general counsel, left the bureau in 2018. Official FBI photo. (Official FBI photo)
Durham’s team alleges Sussmann was, in fact, doing work for two clients: the Hillary Clinton campaign and a technology executive, Rodney Joffe. Following the meeting with Baker, Sussmann billed the Hillary Clinton campaign for his work.
Sussmann has pleaded not guilty to the charge.
Meanwhile, Baker testified that he was aware that Sussmann represented the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee, but stressed that he believed that he was not working "on behalf of any client." Baker said that he understood Sussmann to be bringing allegations to him from "serious cyber" people, and was something separate from those Democratic entities.
When asked why he believed that, Baker testified: "Because he said he wasn’t. He told me in his statement to me he wasn’t there on behalf of any client."
FBI concerns about media getting ahold of the Trump-Russia story
Baker said that during the meeting, Sussmann warned him that a "major" news outlet would be publishing a story on the allegations by the end of the week.
"Articles coming out revealing any part of what might be happening between the Trump Organization and Russia was of concern to me in terms of the impact on the investigation and ability to conduct it without the other side knowing," Baker said, adding that the FBI had to act "quickly" because if the story on the allegations were reported, the communication could "disappear" and make it "much harder" for the FBI to investigate.
Former U.S. President Bill Clinton and First Lady Hillary Clinton arrive for the Presidential Inauguration of Trump at the U.S. Capitol in Washington, D.C., U.S., January 20, 2017. REUTERS/Saul Loeb/Pool (REUTERS/Saul Loeb/Pool)
"I know from my prior experience in this field that if a news organization were to publish something about an alleged surreptitious communications channel, it is likely that as soon as it came out, the communications channel would disappear and make it that much harder for the FBI to investigate the existence of such a channel," Baker said, noting that the users could begin to do "something different," and that the information, then, "wouldn’t be as much use to the bureau."
Baker added that because of the potential involvement of news media, investigating the allegations of a channel between Trump Organization and Alfa Bank were "time sensitive."
"If the FBI wanted to investigate this in the counterintelligence world, really in any part of criminal investigations, but especially in the counterintelligence world, you don’t want the bad guys to know that you’re looking at them," Baker said. "You want to be able to investigate without them being aware you’re looking at them."
He added: "It is critically important."
Baker testified that days after the meeting with Sussmann at the FBI on Sept. 19, 2016, the two spoke by phone.
Photo of John Durham and Michael Sussmann. Sussman pic: Perkins Coie (Perkins Coie)
"The point of the phone call was to ask Michael the identity of the reporter he had identified in the meeting with me so that we could ask the reporter slow down on publishing the article," Baker said, noting that the FBI wanted to "delay publication of this article so the FBI could conduct its investigation into the alleged secret surreptitious communications channel."
The government presented a text message from Sussmann to Baker on Sept. 21, 2016:
"Jim, Sorry I have been unable to respond sooner. Travel and persons availability were not ideal this afternoon and evening. I am working on your request and expect to have an answer for you by 9:00 am tomorrow- and I’m hoping for a positive response," Sussmann texted Baker.
Baker testified Thursday that he interpreted that text to mean that Sussmann was "working hard to respond to my request about getting the identity of that reporter, but that he had not been able to contact the people he needed to contact yet."
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"But it seemed that everything was going in the direction that we, at the FBI, had hoped for," Baker said, noting they were "optimistic about the possibility of getting the identity of that reporter."
The reporter in question was New York Times reporter Eric Lichtblau.
FBI finds no ‘surreptitious communications channel’ after weeks of investigation
Baker said he eventually had a meeting with Priestap and the head of FBI's public affairs with Lichtblau to convince him to slow down publication of the story. Baker testified that Lichtblau eventually agreed.
"My recollection is he was trying to understand how seriously we were taking this allegation and the extent to which we thought there was some kind of nefarious activity between the Trump Organization and Russia," Baker said. "He was asking us a series of probing questions, most of which we rebuffed because we didn’t want to disclose what we were up to."
Baker added that Lichtblau seemed "frustrated with the conversation to some degree."
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Baker, though, said the New York Times did not seem to be "persuaded yet either about whether this material actually showed there was a surreptitious communications channel."
"They weren't yet convinced and weren't ready to publish and were doing additional research to test the material, validate the material, and make sure they understood the material," Baker said, adding that the FBI notified the reporter that the bureau was "still working on it and needed more time to investigate it fully."
Meanwhile, in testimony from FBI Special Agent Scott Hellman on Tuesday afternoon said that the data revealing the alleged covert communications channel between Trump and Russia that Sussmann brought to the FBI turned out to be untrue, and said he did not agree with the narrative.
Hellman testified that whoever drafted the narrative describing the DNS data was "5150," and clarified on the stand that meant he believed the individual who came to the conclusions was "was suffering from some mental disability."
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Baker testified Thursday that the FBI's investigation "did not reveal there was some kind of surreptitious communications channel."
"We concluded there was no substance. We couldn’t confirm it. We could not confirm there was a surreptitious communications channel," Baker said, noting the investigation was "several weeks, maybe a month, maybe a month and a half."
"There was nothing there," he said.
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