Amb. Kelly Craft on push to extend Iran arms embargo, human rights issues in China
U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Kelly Craft joins Martha MacCallum for an exclusive interview on 'The Story.'
This is a rush transcript from "The Story," August 10, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody. I'm Martha MacCallum in New York. Moments ago, a scare at the White House when the president began his scheduled press briefing and this happened. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: It looks like they're just about going to be topping records, hopefully soon. Excuse me?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: You don't see that every day. The President returned, though several minutes later. He explained that a suspect was shot by law enforcement right outside the fence area of the White House residence. President eventually came back, continue the briefing with an update on COVID-19 and the economy and other things. He indicated that there would be more information on what happened outside the White House. We're going to bring you those new details as soon as we get them this evening.
Meanwhile, we turn our focus to 2020 this evening. We are now 84 days away from the big election. Here is where we are on this August 10th, 6.9 points separate the two candidates at this point, not all that different from where we were four years ago in August of 2016. At that point, candidate Trump tied behind Hillary Clinton just over 7 points. These were the sounds from the campaign trail four years ago, right around this time in the summer. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Donald Trump simply does not have the temperament to be President and Commander-in-Chief of the United States.
TRUMP: See, I don't like her temperament because her temperament is the temperament of a loser.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Interesting to look back, right? That's where we were in August of 2016. At that point, the vice-presidential picks had already been made, but this time around, we are still waiting for Vice President Biden. The former Vice President has promised that he will pick a female running mate, he made that promise quite a while ago.
And we are told that that decision could come any moment, any day now over the course of this week, that the President has turned his focus now on his part to speaking directly to the American people, which is what he was doing today when he was pulled out of there. He does that on a daily basis. The President has pretty much taking the reins of his campaign. Katie Pavlich and Donna Brazile here to talk about all of that in just a moment.
Also, ahead tonight on "The Story," we're going to be joined by Sean Hannity, talking to him about the latest in the Russia investigation and what may potentially become an October surprise. We'll get his thoughts on that.
Also, tonight, an exclusive interview with the U.S. Ambassador to the U.N., Kelly Craft. Also joining me, Dr. Scott Atlas. We're going to ask him about these reports that the Big 10 is considering pulling the plug on college football over COVID-19 concerns. Then you had President Trump and the Clemson QB, Trevor Lawrence sending tweets today that were hash tagged, we want to play. So, we're going to see what Dr. Atlas thinks about that. My guess is that he's going to agree, just given what he has said about all of that in the past. But we'll ask him firsthand when we come back and talk to him a little bit later tonight.
So, we begin with Correspondent Mark Meredith from the White House this evening. Mark, a bit of excitement over there tonight.
MARK MEREDITH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Martha, there sure was a Secret Service calling this, an officer involved shooting, it happened right outside of what's known as the old executive office building. That's the building just adjacent to the White House itself. You can see here over my shoulder that the police have this area about two blocks around the White House, completely blocked off, not just here, but the perimeter that surrounds the White House complex.
I want to show you a picture that we got off of a tourist that was here in town who captured the aftermath of that officer involved shooting where someone was shot outside of the White House. You can see a person laying there on the ground. No details on the identity of this person, or what may have led into the moments right before that was happening. But as you know, Martha, security always tight around the White House. That includes inside the briefing room where President Trump was giving a briefing about the Coronavirus.
The president was then basically told that he needed to leave the room by the Secret Service. The press corps that was in there was paying attention, obviously. And that is an odd sight to see that when the President's pushed off. When the President came back, he discussed what he had learned from the Secret Service. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Sorry for that. There was a shooting outside of the White House and seems to be very well under control. I'd like to thank the Secret Service for doing their - always quick and very effective work. But there was an actual shooting, and somebody has been taken to the hospital. I don't know the condition of the person. It seems that the person was shot by Secret Service.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MEREDITH: The Secret Service says they will be releasing some more information likely later on tonight, but I've seen a number of investigators still just start to show up to the scene to try to piece it together, this police tape right here. This was just put up about five minutes ago, Martha. So, an indication, they have a lot of work still to do on this case. No other indication that anyone else was hurt. But once we get any more information, Martha, of course, we'll pass it to you. Back to you.
MACCALLUM: Disturbing development and out of an abundance of caution, clearly, they suggested that the President remove himself from that room for a little bit. We're going to get more information on that. Mark Meredith reporting on the scene there. Thank you very much, Mark. Good to see you.
So, joining me now, Kate Pavlich, Editor of Town Hall, and Donna Brazile, the former Chair of the Democratic National Committee. Both are Fox News Contributors. Ladies, great to have both of you with us tonight. And as I said, we're waiting for more information on what happened outside of the White House. We'll bring that to everybody as soon as it comes in.
But I want to get to the election and the numbers that we see, Donna, when you look at the spread right now and you look back at four years ago and see that the spread was very similar, in fact, it was a little bit greater than it is now. Does that concern you as a Democratic strategist?
DONNA BRAZILE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: OK, to what we saw four years ago and what we saw even eight years ago? We know that this race is going to tighten. We know that it's going to come down to a handful of states and probably, like last time within the margin. So, it's important that the Vice President, as well as his team and all of the other Democratic strategists who are working for him. I'm not on the campaign staff. I hope they're running as if they're 10 points behind. We know what the secret sauce was in 2016 that President Trump was able to spread in those states.
And if they're not mindful of the fact that Donald Trump has been running since day one, since the day he took the oath of office, they need to understand that he has a ground force, an online army, and people who are willing to support it.
MACCALLUM: Yes, Katie, it's interesting. There have been a lot of pieces that have been written. I'm thinking of one by Matt Taibbi talking about how Democrats have abandoned some of the voters that they thought were with them in 2016 and some of the more rural areas in the Midwestern areas.
The forgotten man and woman was - what it was called then. And what we're seeing is that there are still a lot of voters who are reluctant to voice their opinions about who they support because, they probably learned the hard way that when they do that, they get some pushback. What is your sense of where those voters are today who are called the shy Trump voter, for example?
KATIE PAVLICH, TOWNHALL.COM EDITOR: Well, I do think that there is what you call a shy Trump voter, but I also think that there are plenty of Trump voters who are out there and proudly voicing their opinions. I mean, if you take a drive outside of the major cities, you see Trump signs and Trump flags and Trump masks everywhere you go.
But, Martha, I think we focus so much on polling. It's one aspect of an election. As you mentioned, the numbers are very similar to what they were against Hillary Clinton. But in fact, Joe Biden is even further behind than she was in terms of beating the President. There are other things at play here. The Trump campaign is knocking on millions of doors. They have a ground game. They are registering more Republican voters than Democrats are registering in states where they really need them.
And if you look at the counties that President Trump flipped from Obama, Obama in 2008 and 2012 to Trump in 2016, 200 counties. The big question with the platform and Joe Biden, the DNC and what Joe Biden has planned for if he becomes President is are the people who live in those counties really going to be satisfied with what Joe Biden is proposing? Or are they going to look at President Trump's record and say, actually, he deserves my vote again?
MACCALLUM: You know Donna, President Trump just moments ago called the plan a manifesto that was signed between the Biden team and the Bernie Sanders team in terms of the environment and health care and a lot of those issues. The President also laid out things that he thinks are going to be heading in his direction come fall, the GDP number, the economy. He thinks the COVID numbers are going to be leaning in the right direction. Does that concern you?
BRAZILE: No, let me just tell you this, I think the President understands that this is a referendum on his leadership, his failed leadership, the fact that he constantly try to divide us, he make things up as he goes along. We have no strategy to defeat COVID, no strategy whatsoever to test and trace millions of Americans in order to reopen our schools. And so, here's what I believe.
I do believe that Joe Biden has some hidden spirit, and it's hidden in the fact that there are millions of Americans who are totally disgusted with the Trump policies and they're going to vote for Joe Biden. We also need to be comforted by the fact that we have many competitive Senate races, Senate races that will ultimately boost turnout. And, of course, congressional races, as we saw in 2018, where we had a historic number of women running for office. So, I'm confident that Joe Biden is still going to get the 270 electoral votes and win the popular vote once again.
MACCALLUM: We will see. I always think that people don't really fully engage until after Labor Day, but one of the things that's going to engage them is the pick of the Vice President's - former Vice President's person to be his Vice President if he wins. So, we're going to watch that, and we'll be covering that story throughout the week. Donna, thank you. Katie, thank you. Good to see you both tonight.
BRAZILE: Thank you.
PAVLICH: Thanks, Martha.
MACCALLUM: So, coming up, we have a special guest tonight, our very own Sean Hannity on Democrats bracing for a possible October surprise from U.S. Attorney John Durham. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Under oath, do you commit to not releasing any report by Mr. Durham before the November election?
WILLIAM BARR, ATTORNEY GENERAL: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: No, said Bill Barr. Well, that reportedly has Democrats a bit on edge as the election grows near. NPR pointing out, Democrats worry Attorney General has an October surprise in the making as new signs suggest that Attorney General - that U.S. Attorney, I should say, John Durham's investigation into the Russia probe may be coming to some conclusions. Here's President Trump on that just moments ago. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They knew about it. It was a terrible thing, should have never happened and should never be allowed to happen again to a President. That should never happen again. This was a setup like we have never seen. I think it's a political crime of the century and they've been caught. So, let's see what happens to them all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: We're seeing more and more evidence that points in that direction every week, it seems. Here now, Sean Hannity, host of Hannity and author of the brand-new book Live Free or Die, America and the World on the Brink. Sean, great to have you with us. Thank you for coming in tonight. Congratulations on the book.
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: Thanks, Martha. By the way, 85 days away, and that's exactly what's at stake. There's a ton, ton - every issue. It's amazing. There is the deepest divide. I've never seen a one major party candidate race so solidly to the Left. The President was right in his observation. I mean, they co-opted Bolshevik Bernie's agenda, pledging trillions for AOC's new green deal. The gun czar is, you're damn right, we're going to take your gun, Beto O'Rourke. This is the biggest choice election by far in our lifetime. And the consequences couldn't be bigger.
MACCALLUM: Yes.
HANNITY: And thank you for having me.
MACCALLUM: Thank you for being here. It's so strange. You and I were talking in the break about covering elections and being on convention floors and talking to people. It's just a completely different environment for so many reasons this time around. But I want to ask you about what Bill Barr was asked there and the suggestion that this Durham report, which everybody everywhere you go, people are where's that report? When's that coming out? Do you think that it will be coming out prior to the election? And what do you expect? What do you think?
HANNITY: Well, I think in fairness, for the American people, two things should happen before the election, Number one, we should know the truth about what happened in 2016 before voters go to the polls. And number two, I think there should be a debate before one vote is cast. And I know the President has invited Joe Biden, who says he's dying and can't wait to compare cognitive abilities with President Trump. I'm all for seeing that match up sooner than later before early voting starts in 16 states, which is all before the first debate.
What Barr--
MACCALLUM: That's a great point. By the way, I mean, people should have an opportunity. I keep saying this because these conventions are sort of shrinking, because the election cycle has shrunk so dramatically. The most important thing here is that people in this country get the opportunity to watch these two men debate and sooner or later, I think is a service to the country. So, go ahead.
HANNITY: Absolutely. And in fairness, Joe says he's ready to debate.
MACCALLUM: Absolutely.
HANNITY: I can't wait. He can't wait.
MACCALLUM: So, why wouldn't he.
HANNITY: All right, step up, Joe? I'd love to see it. As far as what Barr said, Barr is also, at other times I call him like it's sort of like Hansel and Gretel. Little crumbs are being left by the Attorney General. And this is what we know. We know he said it's an investigation. It's not necessarily a report. We know that with the Inspector General report that we know that, in fact, there have been referrals for lying. Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Page, I think, again, process crimes that had predawn raids for the likes of Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, and others.
So, you would like equal justice, an application of our laws. But there's certain things that we know that are overwhelming, incontrovertible evidence and there's no ambiguity. The media mob in this country was wrong. There never, ever was any Trump-Russia collusion. The only Russia influence that we know for certain was Hillary Clinton's bought and paid for dirty Russian dossier. Even The New York Times now refers to it as likely Russian disinformation from the beginning.
But the worst part of that is at the top of every FISA application, when they took away Carter Page's civil rights and constitutional - civil liberties and constitutional rights, it says verified. We know in August of 2016 that the FBI was warned. It's not verified that Steele has an agenda and Hillary paid for it. Two weeks before Pathlink have like the State Department warned Comey. Comey signed it anyway. Not only was it not verified, it was unverifiable.
Then he lied to Donald Trump because he swore when he signed that first FISA warrant in October 2016. He said, yes, it's not verified, but salacious. And then we know for certain that in January of 2017 that when the sub source of Christopher Steele was finally interviewed, he said none of this is true. This was just a bunch of bar talk. And then we now must ask the question why subsequent renewal warrants were signed, number one.
MACCALLUM: Yes.
HANNITY: And we also know that both Rod Rosenstein, who signed the third renewal, the fourth warrant and that Sally Yates has signed one of the warrants. Both said knowing what they know now, they never would have - they never would have signed it, because the bulk of information was the dirty Russian dossier.
MACCALLUM: Remarkable.
HANNITY: So, we need to know.
MACCALLUM: Yes.
HANNITY: That's the biggest corruption scandal ever.
MACCALLUM: We've all gotten used to this rapid-fire news cycle. And I think we're going to have about 10 cycles between now and November 3rd. And a lot of things are going to come out in the next couple of months.
HANNITY: Well, Martha, I can tell you one thing that won't come out. The Hannity Show was right. Our ensemble cast, we broke all of this down and the mob and the media peddle lies, distortions, libel, besmirch and conspiracy theories. When are they ever going to be held accountable?
MACCALLUM: Yes, you're right. And you know what, I think that so much of that obviously was borne out in this investigation. And for anybody who needs all of those things tied together, we'll see what comes out with the John Durham report.
HANNITY: We'll see.
MACCALLUM: Over the next couple of weeks.
HANNITY: Justice now.
MACCALLUM: We'll see. Live Free or Die is the name of the book America and the World on the Brink.
HANNITY: Thanks, Martha.
MACCALLUM: I think a lot of people out there feel like this is a very important election. Sean's brand-new book. Sean Hannity, always good to see you, sir. Thank you for stopping by.
HANNITY: Always good to see you. Martha, thank you as always.
MACCALLUM: Many thanks. So, coming up, a story exclusive with U.N. Ambassador Kelly Craft as the United States confronts China and Iran, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: All around Hong Kong, posters, and banners like these heralds the new security law, claiming that it will restore stability to Hong Kong. But this is what it looks like in action, a crackdown on pro-democracy. This is the arrest of Jimmy Lai from his newsroom of the Apple daily paper. The raid ended with him being taken into custody, along with at least nine other pro-democracy figures in Hong Kong. Not a good situation.
That is Beijing announces sanctions on 11 U.S. citizens, including Senators Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Tom Cotton, Josh Hawley, and Pat Toomey. My next guest is fully engaged on that, as well as another big issue that is front and center for her right now, the coming pivotal vote at the United Nations this week on a U.S. resolution to extend an arms embargo against Iran.
U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Kelly Craft joins me now. Ambassador Craft, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Good to have you with us.
KELLY CRAFT, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: Thank you, Martha, for having me. Thank you so much for having me.
MACCALLUM: So, I want to begin with Iran and what this vote looks like and what happens if Russia and China block this resolution and the arms embargo against Iran ends.
CRAFT: Thank you, Martha. First of all, we have a clear choice, there's a choice between the number one state sponsor of terrorism or peace and security around the world. The U.S. stands very firm. There is only one way and that is the right way. And this is not a popularity contest. And we understand that.
We also understand that Russia and China are waiting to be able to sell arms to Iran. So, if you think about waking up on October 19th and the arms embargo is not renewed, China and Russia will be able to sell arms to Iran. Iran will then be able to export these modernized weapons, these lethal weapons to their terrorist organizations all throughout the world, the Middle East, Israel, you name - Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Libya, Lebanon. We have no other choice than to renew the arms embargo and promote peace and security around the world.
MACCALLUM: What kind of response are you getting when you speak to your colleagues there on the Russian and China front? Because the feeling out there is that this is not going to be extended. And if that's the case, what will you say? And what will the Trump administration do to rein in Iran? Is there anything you can do?
CRAFT: We have made it very clear that the U.S. will use every tool in our toolbox to make certain that the arms embargo is renewed. We have a responsibility to all the countries that are represented by these flags this evening to make certain that we protect them and promote peace and security.
Iran is the number one state sponsor of terrorism. Iran promotes terrorism in Yemen by propping up the Houthi rebels, in Syria with the Assad regime, in Venezuela, in Iraq with a Shia militia. Iran is the number one state sponsor. We have no other choice than to do the right thing, and that is to renew the Iran arms embargo. Russia and China and we are standalone.
MACCALLUM: Well, they - it sounds like that's the way it's going to go. And we'll be watching very closely to see how that goes. I know you feel strongly about it, as does the White House in terms of extending that embargo. I want to ask you about China. We watch what's going on in Hong Kong, we see Jimmy Lai, this prominent pro-democracy advocate being arrested.
In terms of the United Nations and what can be done, we look at this scene in Hong Kong. We look at the Uyghur situation on human rights. What are you doing at the U.N. to push them to be accountable for what they promised to Hong Kong and what they have - I think a lot of people feel lied about with regard to the Uyghur situation?
CRAFT: What we're doing in every opportunity that we have in the Security Council is bringing up the human rights issues in China. And whether that be with the Uyghurs, whether that be with Africans, whether that Tibetans, the Taiwanese, Hong Kongers. Wherever this is, any area where we can bring forward the human rights abuses that China is bringing on.
You know, we have -- we have in Hong Kong, what a disappointment that their chief executive Carrie Lam who also enjoyed the freedoms that were allowed to the Hongkongers for decades, she enjoyed this and then she allowed China to come in and suppress, you know, to take -- to take the liberty and the freedom away from the Hongkongers. We owe it to the millions in Hong Kong, to the 1.4 billion Chinese citizens who also deserve democracy and freedom.
MACCALLUM: Well, clearly, the tone is changing and the United States is more aggressive now than ever in terms of being clear about what we think about Taiwan and what we think about Hong Kong.
Alex Azar was in Taiwan, and obviously, that made Beijing angry. Here's the headline from the New York Times. The U.S. and Taiwan celebrate a bond. China responds with screaming jets.
We're going to talk to Secretary Azar about this tomorrow.
What kind of feedback do you get from the Chinese at the United Nations on this issue?
CRAFT: You know, Taiwan is a beacon of democracy. And if you remember Taiwan stood up to China, they stood up to the WHO, they were the first to bring to light COVID-19 and the transmission from human to human. You know, WHO wasn't going to tell us this and they are -- they knew Taiwanese shared this with WHO, but WHO was nothing but a mouthpiece for China.
And in every opportunity that we have, and you remember that our president ran on this in 2016, that we were going to show the world, China, and the fact that China was standing in the way of democracy for the people not only in this, in Hong Kong and Taiwan but for their own people within their country.
And in every opportunity, we have whether it be through the arms embargo or whether it be through at AOB on Hong Kong and bringing up Taiwan, we will make it very clear that there is only one way and that is in Iran arms embargo with our security resolution 2231.
MACCALLUM: Well, one would hope that the United Nations as a forum where these human rights issues can be looked at with clear eyes by all of these countries, that the flags which you have pointed to.
Ambassador Kelly Craft, we thank you very much for talking with us tonight. We hope you come back soon. Thanks for being here.
CRAFT: Thank you, thank you, Martha. Absolutely. Thank you very much.
MACCALLUM: You bet. We appreciate it.
So, coming up, 85 days away now from the election, can you believe it? I mean, it's sneaking up on us, it's right around the corner. So, the pollsters got it wrong as you well remember, and is evidence by the picture on the left-hand side of your screen there. They could perhaps end up with some egg on their faces this time too because it doesn't seem like their process has really changed all that much.
We're going to talk to one who says that Biden has the edge but that he does not have it locked up, and he is going to tell us why, coming up next.
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MACCALLUM: Well, there's a rude awakening from pollsters across the country on the morning of November 9th 2016.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to tell you something, in all sincerity, we were wrong, OK? The entire punditry industry, the entire polling industry, the entire analyst industry, and I want to use this opportunity to take my fair share of the blame, we were wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So that after months of headlines like the ones that we saw published four years ago this week, quote, "Clinton opens up double-digit lead over Trump." "Donald Trump needs a miracle to win." That was just about now in 2016.
And "the polls aren't skewed" said FiveThirtyEight back in August of that year. So, the question now is, will these 2020 predictions be any better? Well, there's people seem to be standing by them.
Joining me now is Sean Trende, senior elections analyst for RealClearPolitics. Sean, good to have you with us today.
So, you know, when you look back at that and you think about what went wrong last time, what do you think about how your numbers look now and what have you changed in terms of remodeling?
SEAN TRENDE, SENIOR ELECTIONS ANALYST, REALCLEARPOLITICS: Well, we know that there's a, there was a mistake, a mess up in 2016 and we also know that polls have error margins, there's nothing you can do about that. But there were some specific issues in 2016, polls didn't get enough whites without college degrees, working class whites. And so, pollsters are adjusting for that.
So, you know, the polls in 2018 were pretty good so we have good reasons for optimism this time around but also caution.
MACCALLUM: Always that little bit of caution, right?
TRENDE: Always.
MACCALLUM: Because we never know when it's going to happen. Here's Tom Bevan talking the other night with Laura Ingraham. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM BEVAM CO-FOUNDER, REAL CLEAR POLITICS: I talked to Robert Cahaly who is the pollster for the Trafalgar Group, he released the poll in Michigan not too long ago, he said that he's seeing that shy Trump effect, it's called social desirability bias and it's when respondents don't want to tell pollsters exactly what they think. He's seeing that, he said more this time around than last time around.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So, Michigan, obviously it was razor tight last time around and Tom Bevan says that he's talking to pollsters there that think that the shy Trump vote is even larger now than it was then, what you say to that?
TRENDE: Well, Tom is my boss so I can't really argue with him. Now look, if you look at the live interview polls where people have to talk to a live interview are on the phone --
CHURCH: Yes.
TRENDE: -- Trump does worse in those polls that on the internet polls or the auto robo-dialing polls. And so, yes, there is some evidence of the shy Trump effect and it's definitely something you have to keep in mind when you're interpreting these poll averages.
MACCALLUM: You know, I think it's interesting that that number has grown. I mean, because Trump supporters in a lot of ways, you know, have just probably, you know, some of them are loud and proud but some of them, they probably are more reluctant than ever.
You know, when you think about what's happened to some people going into restaurants or going to places with a make America great hat on and they get, you know, abusive language thrown at them, I mean, why would any of them, why would they answer a pollster, why would they talk to anybody like that?
TRENDE: I think after four years of being told that the MAGA hat is a hate symbol --
MACCALLUM: Yes.
TRENDE: -- you know, after four years of seeing how the media has dealt with the administration there's going to be some reluctance then to respond to the CBS, you know, live interview poll.
MACCALLUM: But in terms of how polls have changed. So, you said that they now -- that they have a wider polling towards some of the people that were, some of the groups that were left out last time around. How confident are you that they are bringing in people that were more forgotten the last time around and, you know, what adjustments have been made, we've seen a lot of these polls that skew Democrat voters. We've seen polls that don't focus enough on likely voters, they're sort of all potential voters. How have they have been fixed specifically?
TRENDE: So, they fix them when you get a white voter without a college degree responding, they wait that vote, that response up to account for people that are out there but wouldn't respond to the poll. You know, there's all kinds of waiting that goes on in these polls but at the end of the day, you know, we emphasize that these polls are a snapshot, they all have error margins and so you can't take the polls literally, you have to keep in mind that they are estimates.
MACCALLUM: Yes. They're a snapshot of the moment and as we saw where they were four years ago, they turned out to be wrong. We'll see if this time they turn out to be right.
Sean Trende, thank you very much. Good to have you here tonight.
TRENDE: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: So, coming up, President Trump throwing support but behind the hash tag we want to play. And the college athletes who want to play ball despite COVID-19. Dr. Scott Atlas on that and on his new roles as one of the advisors for the White House on all of this, coming up next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: This is Scott Atlas, you know that, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
TRUMP: Scott is a very famous man. He's also very highly respected, Stanford and he's working with us and will be working with us on the coronavirus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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MACCALLUM: President Trump saying today that college athletes have worked too hard for their seasons to be canceled and that they deserve to play ball this fall amid reports that two of the power five conferences, the big 10 and PAC-12 may announce tomorrow that they are going to cancel their 2020 football season but nothing is definitive quite yet.
Joining me now is Dr. Scott Atlas, senior fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution and former chief of neuroradiology at Stanford University Medical Center, he's also now joined the White House team as an adviser.
Dr. Atlas, good to have you back on the program. Thanks for being here tonight.
SCOTT ATLAS, SENIOR FELLOW, HOOVER INSTITUTION: Thanks for having me again, Martha.
MACCALLUM: So, in what capacity are you serving at the White House?
ATLAS: Well, like you said, I'm an adviser, I was asked by the president to advise him and it's obvious that the answer is yes, sir, and in any way I can help, I will do so.
MACCALLUM: That's great. Well, we've always enjoyed having your insight here and I know that they will appreciate it at the White House as well.
So, I do want to ask you about the football season and before I do that, I want to put up this quote from Trevor Lawrence who is a Clemson quarterback with very bright prospects for his future.
He says people are at just as much if not more risk if we don't play. Players will all be sent back to their own communities where social distancing is highly unlikely and medical care and expenses will be placed on the families if they contract COVID-19. Not to mention the players coming from situations that are not good for them, their future and having to go back to that. Football is a safe haven for so many people who are more likely to get the virus in everyday life than playing football.
What do you think about his assessment?
ATLAS: I think he is an incredibly mature, insightful young man. He's nailing something right away which is that the environment of college sports and athletes is a very, very sophisticated environment, they have health care, they are very controlled, there's accountability, they couldn't get a better and safer environment no matter what environment you're from.
And of course, he mentions that a lot of us are not from perfectly safe environments. But there's something else here, and this is again based on logic and common sense, we're talking about people who are physical specimens who are really super-young people, young people at age without a comorbidity have virtually zero risk from this.
We have to again become rational here, the risk for people that age is less than seasonal influenza. I mean, you have to really look at the data and again, you can say it's all about the science and then act contrary to science.
MACCALLUM: Yes, great point.
ATLAS: So, this is a perfect situation here, we've got young people that are very healthy, of course there has to be accommodations for those with comorbidities and I'm sure there are some athletes that are diabetic or have other comorbidities. I'm sure there are some coaches that do. And we know how to safely take care of those people. And of course, if people are afraid or if they have comorbidities or afraid, I'm sure it's OK that they can opt out, but there is no reason to shut down out of fear here.
MACCALLUM: Yes. I have a picture from a Georgia tech game during the Spanish influenza in 1918 that we can put on the screen. They played a limited season, there were not a ton of games that season but they did, they did play and, you know, it's just interesting to look back at the thinking then, if not shutting down, if you look at 1957 and the other clues that have gone through this country, things just didn't shut down like they are now. Last thought there, doctor.
ATLAS: Yes. Well, my thought is here at this point, you know, there is a really such fear in the community --
MACCALLUM: Yes.
ATLAS: -- and unfortunately, it's been propagated by, really, people who are doing some very sloppy thinking and really sensationalistic media reporting. So, I think we have to get a grip here, look at the science, understand who we're talking about here, there's not a lot of obese, diabetic 78-year-olds playing football.
MACCALLUM: Yes. It's great point and as you point out that if someone does have an issue that makes it better for them not to play then they should do that.
ATLAS: Absolutely.
MACCALLUM: But for most of them they are going to be just fine.
Dr. Scott Atlas, good to see you here. Thank you, sir.
ATLAS: OK, thanks.
MACCALLUM: So, this week we mark to the 75th anniversary of VJ Day, remembering the surrender of Japan after the hard-fought battles of the Pacific. It all began of course at Pearl Harbor. And navy veteran Mickey Ganitch was there, he's next.
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MACCALLUM: This Saturday is the 75th anniversary of VJ Day. This week we will celebrate the heroes who brought about that victory over Japan in August of 1945.
My next guest was on the USS Pennsylvania in drydock in Pearl Harbor that Sunday morning. Mickey Ganitch was dressed in his football uniform ready for a game against the USS Arizona for the fleet football championship when he heard news of an incoming attack. He climbed up to the crow's nest and saw it all.
Mickey survived a second attack on August 12, 1945 in Okinawa when his ship was hit by a torpedo. The next morning, Japan surrendered. Weeks later, Mickey headed back home to the states. The navy veteran is 100 years old, married 57 years. He and his wife Barbara have four daughters, 13 grandchildren, 18 great grandkids, and nine great, great grandkids. How are you today?
MICKEY GANITCH, 100-YEAR-OLD WWII NAVY VETERAN: Very good, thank you.
MACCALLUM: It's great to have you with us. I want to hear a little bit about your story. What do you remember about that morning in your football uniform at Pearl Harbor, sir?
GANITCH: Well, we're thinking about how important the game was of this, remember the Super Bowl of the navy and we were already for -- we're fine for it and we had a good team and we're looking forward to it and we're going to be ready to go.
MACCALLUM: And then you heard the attacks begin and you climbed up to the crow's nest, tell me about that, sir.
GANITCH: My job was a lookout, that's up to a crow's nest about 70, 80 feet higher than most of the deck of the ship and my job was to report anything of any (Inaudible) or anything I could report, I was a lookout and that was my job.
MACCALLUM: What do you remember about what you saw that morning up there?
GANITCH: Well, I saw a lot of ships burning, planes flying around close enough that some planes flying around were close enough you could hit then with rocks if you had rocks you threw at them. They weren't that close, but they looked awfully, awfully close here.
It's too much to think about that they're dealing what's going on, bombs going on, guns shooting in every direction. There's just a heck of and didn't have time to really think about it till after it was over then. Then you think about what was really happening. You didn't have time to think about it at the time.
MACCALLUM: Yes, I'm sure you didn't. What do you remember about VJ Day and what's the significance for you of this 75th anniversary?
GANITCH: Well, VJ Day we were kind of busy because my ship was torpedoed at Okinawa, we were trying to stay afloat there and they were throwing us to Guam while the peace treaty is being signed in Tokyo City. I'm not quite sure what is the exact time we go to Guam yet because three times we're told it's to Guam, and going about two miles an hour for 500 miles, it takes a long time.
So, I think we were on our way to Guam when they were signing the peace treaty and we were glad that it was over and get back our life back to normal.
MACCALLUM: It's amazing you were there from the first moments of this battle all the way through Okinawa, sir, and I know that you have spent a lot of the year since then volunteering, you're the chaplain for the fleet. Tell me what that volunteering for other servicemen has meant to you over the course of your life?
GANITCH: Well, I was hell through many times while I was in the service. I dedicated myself to help veterans whenever I could, so I've been a volunteer at the V.A. clinic in Oakland there, I had over 9,000 hours volunteering. I've been a volunteer in a community center in Oakland for about 20 years.
So, I have no idea how many hours of volunteering I have, but it's for the veterans. Whatever I can do for the veterans even though I'm 100 years old, I still think veterans to the deployment there anything I can do to help those veterans because veterans come first.
MACCALLUM: I know that you say that you are obviously a very, very proud American. At one point, you said if you don't like this country, I'll help you move.
GANITCH: That's right. That's right. For better or for worse, it's the best country there is. Like I said, if you don't like it, I'll help you move to another country wherever you think it's better than what we have. I know we have our faults, but there's no better country that I can think of.
MACCALLUM: Sir, you have served your country in so many ways over the course of your life and your enormous family as well, so we wish you and your wife Barbara well and we thank you very much for being with us. And we send our best to your entire family, sir. We thank you for your service and for sharing your story.
Thank you, Mickey. Thank you, Barbara.
Our thanks to Mickey and Barbara. That's "The Story" for tonight, Monday, August 10, 2020. We'll see you back here tomorrow. Have a good night.
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